Let's talk about the dark side of Ministers and Psychiatrists for a moment...

[PurityOfEssence]

As the politically-correct fallout passes through its early stages and into the solidifying consensus following a shocking occurrence, it's often illuminating to sit back a second and look at some of the prejudices at play.

Something I'm not hearing or seeing much is any condemnation of these two professions. To clarify: I don't think the former should be TOTALLY vilified, nor should the latter be mostly vilified, but they BOTH attract some seriously insane types, as well as just plain assholes.

Yes, many join these professions to help others, spread the good word, ease pain and all that, but many also do it to have power over others and abuse people. This doesn't seem to be a minor aberration, either, but a rather widespread phenomenon.

Both of these professions have a component of the practitioners expecting immunity and being "better" than others. Much of this comes from a sad need from emotional bullies to hide behind credentials (as is rife in academia) to have an exalted position from which to domineer others. There's a self-aggrandizement inherent in many of these people: many shrinks consider themselves inherently superior, both intellectually and emotionally, and many of them simply don't play fair. Some of the most fucked up people I've ever known are in that profession, and some of them are downright mean. As for religion, the piety of some is beyond sickening, and although many are truly sweet and honorable servants of their fellow humans, many are arrogant assholes of the first order.

Religion has a built-in danger of certainty, and this elevates many of its practitioners to a self-proclaimed privilege to do whatever they damned well please. Let's also throw in the sheer ridiculousness of some of the supernatural claims; squaring eternal life and a big super-being with real, actual, mortal and causal life causes a constant friction that puts rationality at risk in a big way.

Just thought I'd spread the joy.

As incidents like this come up, we're buried in apologetic wailings of what noble and altruistic professions these are. It just ain't necessarily so, and it needs to be said. It also needs to be said that those who put themselves above others by the very nature of their profession merely amplify this by being in yet another profession that grants itself unchecked aristocracy, and it shouldn't be seen as too big a leap of logic that someone of both these professions should feel himself above the questioning of his performance (poor review) or the obligations of job (deployment), nor should it be too big a leap for someone who's reinforced in his superiority to others to take the penultimate step of superiority over others: killing them.

Remember the old bumper sticker: "Psychiatry Kills". Religion, of course, REALLY kills.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

1. RELIGION IS FOR THOSE THAT CAN'T DEAL WITH REALITY

[stray cat]

3. E=MC2 or some other reality?

[spoony]

Then hurry up and change your avatar.

[spoony]

10. dupe.

[stray cat]

2. The dark side is in any profession and plenty of progressives and DUers as well

Think how many abusive spouses and significant others there are in the world, think how many children get abused, no one has to have a specific degree to do evil domineering things. However, more intelligent people can sometimes reach positions which allow them power over others - ie politicians, doctors, ministers etc. The stupid are always ready to follow someone else.

[Taverner]

5. Yes - I knew a really evil C++ Coder once

Completely evil - loved to abuse his girlfriends both emotionally and physically, for kicks. And he'd brag about it.

Call him an asshole, and he's smile and agree with you

Oh, and he was a Republican too - wanted to wipe out all of Islam with a neutron bomb so we could move in.

[lunatica]

4. Bullies are found everywhere and they seek positions of authority

You are right, but cops are the same. Managers at every can be bullies, especially if they feel they are incompetent. A study by UC Professors found this to be true. The more incompetent managers felt the worse they bullied their underlings. Men and or women who abuse their spouses or children are usually lousy at what they do and they know it. You rarely find familial abuse coming from people who feel good about themselves. And if you have the good fortune of having really nice managers you find that they are quite comfortable about themselves in every area of life.

[elleng]

6. The more incompetent they felt,

the worse they bullied.

[Bluerthanblue]

7. the same could be said for- politicians, teachers, military, police, security

and even parenthood.

Life kills. everyone- it is the fear of this reality that drives many people to do some pretty absurd things.

You make the statement that : "This doesn't seem to be a minor aberration, either, but a rather widespread phenomenon."

can you back that up with some facts? Especially facts which show a disproportionate number of individuals in the two groups you've chosen to dis- as opposed to other professions which put people in positions of authority?

There are alot of old bumperstickers i remember- some very wise, some pretty lame.

Untreated mental illnesses kill many people prematurely and brings suffering and sorrow to countless others, and those who love them.

[PurityOfEssence]

9. Yes, but it's much more acceptable to say so...

...isn't it?

I find this especially annoying with religion; the cultural assumption is that belief is good, and that those who dedicate themselves to a particular guess are somehow better. That doesn't fit with my worldview; I see religion as a shortcut in virtually every way: a shortcut in explaining the universe by simply cutting off the debate and an affiliation with something "good" to exempt one from having to actually answer for one's actions.

It just seemed that this huge and obvious through-line was being consistently soft-soaped or completely ignored.

Why is it a surprise for someone who believes in immortality and the right to do the Supernatural Big Daddy's will to whip out some guns and go to town? Makes sense to me: the person's been given the mandate to straighten things out by the all-mighty who somehow needs mortals to do his dirty work. Considering the mental contortionism necessary to square the belief system with real life, it's surprising more crap like this doesn't happen.

[spoony]

11. In other words, you carry around a huge axe to grind

against religion and are captialising on a tragedy to make a point. But not directly, because your mealy-mouthed OP wasn't nearly as cut-to-the-chase as what you just said.

"it's surprising more crap like this doesn't happen."

Maybe you should take that as a prompt to re-evaluate your assumptions about religious people, then? Nah, right, what was I thinking, reality and belief only need to match in OTHER people, not yourself.

[PurityOfEssence]

12. That cuts both ways

Still, amid the flurry of posts, there was a surprising lack of stating the obvious: that these two professions attract many people with seriously sociopathic flaws, and provides them the sanctimony from which to operate with impunity. It shouldn't be shocking to find out that many ministers abuse their privilege; part of the point of having privilege is to be above the law, and the point of that is to do things that we've agreed as a society shouldn't be done.

Yes, I have serious problems with the generally held assumption that religion is "good". The constant refrain that those who kill in the name of god aren't TRULY of the faith, and that anything bad done in the name of God isn't REALLY a result of supernatural certainty is a very dangerous thing: pluralism necessitates an attempt at equality, and religion DEMANDS aristocratic immunity.

Much as I'm setting myself up as a voice of secular fairness, you seem to broaden this to me hating all religious people and antagonizing them, which is simply not the case. Those who disagree with you are obviously deserving of being vilified as close-minded bigots and aggressors with no sense of fair play; hopefully, the warm glow of your superiority will sustain you through all your tribulations in a world that refuses to bend to your need for it to be starkly black and white.

[InvisibleTouch]

8. I pretty much agree with you. n/t